I really enjoyed your assessment of slack, and it made me reflect also that the multiple Jesuses may be a deep way of thinking about the Trinity ...
Re: "It is the willingness to cast aside very serious obligations because they do not actually serve what you want or need." The idea that there are different forms of serious obligations - those you want/need and those you don't (which may be chosen for other reasons) - is key to obtaining slack. Perhaps Zvi's binding constraints of behaviour should really be unchosen binding constraints of behaviour.
Hmmm, I hadn't considered the thought that Jesii could be an extension of the idea of the multiplicity of the single person of God, that's interesting. It also hints at something I wanted to talk about, but didn't feel I had enough to say yet: the link between slack and tamanaous.
As for "unchosen binding constraints," hmm, I'm not sure. A single mother who works two jobs to keep her kids fed might not feel she has totally "chosen" all of the binding constraints on her behavior, but I doubt she feels much slack. But maybe she could if she re-conceptualized? I'm not sure. One thing I'm running up against here is that I've read a lot of stuff lately, that I mostly agree with, that the idea that "all unchosen constraints should be removed" might be seen as one way to express the core drive behind the entire liberal current for the past ~300-400 years, and that taking that idea too far might be why we have a lot of the craziness we do in the world - the idea that we shouldn't even be constrained by little things like biology or physics, for example, and should push for a robo-utopia of infinite abundance throughout the stars.
Anyhow, where I currently stand, and might have said more clearly in the post, is that slack is a desirable spiritual/metaphysical quality, but it is not the only desirable spiritual/metaphysical quality, and very likely needs to be balanced against others.
Lots to think about there. And I just saw this in Charles Eisenstein’s latest which made me think about what the connection might be between slack and wuwei: ‘One of the things that's so non dual and paradoxical about Taoism is “wuwei,” which technically means unforced action for anyone who's listening to this. The whole idea of action, to me, is so hard to disambiguate from force. It feels I have to bring my will in order to do something.’
I like what you both are seeing here too, about slack and tamanous. It takes time out of the schedule to go on a vision quest. A person looking for themselves needs some slack for reflection.
::smacks forehead:: That's what I meant to bring in and totally forgot - the Tao and wuwei! Zhuangzi is a total slacker.
That also suggests a (partial) way of reconciling the challenges in my previous comment: while slack may be the lack of constraint on what you want, one way to both get more slack and to be more likely to be getting it the "right" way, is to make sure that what you want is as in line with the Tao as possible.
Perhaps that is the greatest service of the Church of the Subgenius - their off-color emphasis on flaunting convention, gratifying bodily needs, and so forth (tactics which Zhuangzi also uses, btw), serve to point out that much of what we feel compelled by in life is artificial in some sense. Going with the flow of the Truth, on the other hand, is no constraint.
Hmm, interesting. Certainly, in monotheistic faiths, "the Truth" or "the Way" would be synonymous with, or at least very, very close to synonymous with the one and only God. From a polytheistic standpoint, I wonder if different Gods represent different ways of being "in tune" with the Truth/Way/Tao/etc, and while seeking union would be one way to pursue that, other practices might get you there different ways.
Hmm, so I finally had a chance to read the full Eisenstein pice, and it was quite interesting. Overall, I think he has a very important point, that "real" culture and ritual isn't consciously adopted/invented, it just feels like how things are. On the other hand, I think he might be giving short shrift to the process of internalizing a ritual, perhaps for rhetorical effect. For example, I say a short prayer whenever I put on my Thunor's Hammer necklace - these days, that just feels like part of the putting-on process, it's fairly "automatic." Somehow, though, blessing my food before I eat it, despite growing up with that habit, is less automatic, but when I do it, it feels pretty natural. Other prayers are less well-established, and have flashes of feeling true and authentic, and long stretches of feeling like going through the motions. So, I think that's a normal and natural part of an individual adopting ritual, and it wouldn't surprise me if something like that plays out at the large scale of groups of folks trying to work out "culture."
As for what this has to do with slack? Hmmm. Well, disciplined practice is one non-intuitive way to get to slack. When you become very good at something, and it becomes automatic, then all of a sudden you have more slack around doing it than when you had to concentrate as hard as you could to do it. So, departing wildly from what the Church of the Subgenius might say, if the rituals of the culture around you are accpeted and made a routine part of your life, maybe they save you the work of figuring a lot of stuff out for yourself, and thus can grant you slack.
Great post! We must be on a similar wavelength as I just finished the second draft of an article that has slack as one of its main themes. Far out!
I don't go into the Church of the Subgenius in my article really (fan though I am). What I do use as a jumping off point is the movie Slacker. I trust you are familiar with your fellow Texan Richard Linklater's first feature film? If not, it's worth the time IMO, but of course, it might just be a hassle for you.
In any case, I like what you had to say about hassle. That jibes. And your thoughts on being in a platoon also cohere with what I've heard from other people who've been in the armed forces.
Hope you have a good rest of the week! I'm going to try to get some pipe time in, myself.
Hah, must be a message from "Bob," or else one of JHVH-1's satellites!
Ashamed as I am to say, I actually have not seen Slacker, so I'll have to fix that, as I have mostly appreciated Linklater's stuff that I've seen - Dazed and Confused is a classic, Before Sunrise may be a bit cheesy, but nails what it's doing, School of Rock was good, clean fun, and Bernie is pure genius, especially if you're a Texan. A Scanner Darkly was, well, very wierd. I wonder if I ought to revisit it.
Thank you for the kind words! I included the bit about how I felt in the Army, for I feel like that's the least like what you typically get from the Church of the Subgenius, and might offer some interesting other directions to approach slack from. I definitely think there is more to say.
As for Philip K. Dick, I have, well, mixed feelings. Some of his stories are absolutely brilliant, and he was always incisive, but later on in his life/career, the cynical paranoia really crept into everything. I have heard that of the movie adaptations, A Scanner Darkly is likely the most accurate. That being said, I plenty enjoyed Blade Runner, Total Recall, and Minority Report, despite (because of?) the liberties they took with the adaptations.
I like the schlocky/pulpy stuff too. Blade Runner is my wife's favorite movie, and despite the flying cars, I even the sequel was pretty good. Total Recall was a favorite as a kid/teen -and it still holds up.
Of course PKD did get very paranoid -but what I like about his later novels is the mystic gnosticism and contemplation you get in VALIS (with its mysterious satellite), The Divine Invasion & The Transmigration of Timothy Archer. Ideas about reincarnation and different states of reality, really spoke to me.
While I might not agree with his views about the world as a "black iron prison" per se, as someone who was exploring reality or realities, I really felt like PKD was also in line with others around his time -Robert Anton Wilson for instance.
In any case... sorry to get off topic. Just enjoying some slack on the job, before I get back to work.
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Re: "It is the willingness to cast aside very serious obligations because they do not actually serve what you want or need."
The idea that there are different forms of serious obligations - those you want/need and those you don't (which may be chosen for other reasons) - is key to obtaining slack. Perhaps Zvi's binding constraints of behaviour should really be unchosen binding constraints of behaviour.
no subject
As for "unchosen binding constraints," hmm, I'm not sure. A single mother who works two jobs to keep her kids fed might not feel she has totally "chosen" all of the binding constraints on her behavior, but I doubt she feels much slack. But maybe she could if she re-conceptualized? I'm not sure. One thing I'm running up against here is that I've read a lot of stuff lately, that I mostly agree with, that the idea that "all unchosen constraints should be removed" might be seen as one way to express the core drive behind the entire liberal current for the past ~300-400 years, and that taking that idea too far might be why we have a lot of the craziness we do in the world - the idea that we shouldn't even be constrained by little things like biology or physics, for example, and should push for a robo-utopia of infinite abundance throughout the stars.
Anyhow, where I currently stand, and might have said more clearly in the post, is that slack is a desirable spiritual/metaphysical quality, but it is not the only desirable spiritual/metaphysical quality, and very likely needs to be balanced against others.
no subject
‘One of the things that's so non dual and paradoxical about Taoism is “wuwei,” which technically means unforced action for anyone who's listening to this. The whole idea of action, to me, is so hard to disambiguate from force. It feels I have to bring my will in order to do something.’
no subject
(Anonymous) 2023-09-26 07:13 pm (UTC)(link)https://charleseisenstein.substack.com/p/on-creating-culture
I like what you both are seeing here too, about slack and tamanous. It takes time out of the schedule to go on a vision quest. A person looking for themselves needs some slack for reflection.
Justin Patrick Moore
no subject
no subject
That also suggests a (partial) way of reconciling the challenges in my previous comment: while slack may be the lack of constraint on what you want, one way to both get more slack and to be more likely to be getting it the "right" way, is to make sure that what you want is as in line with the Tao as possible.
Perhaps that is the greatest service of the Church of the Subgenius - their off-color emphasis on flaunting convention, gratifying bodily needs, and so forth (tactics which Zhuangzi also uses, btw), serve to point out that much of what we feel compelled by in life is artificial in some sense. Going with the flow of the Truth, on the other hand, is no constraint.
no subject
no subject
no subject
As for what this has to do with slack? Hmmm. Well, disciplined practice is one non-intuitive way to get to slack. When you become very good at something, and it becomes automatic, then all of a sudden you have more slack around doing it than when you had to concentrate as hard as you could to do it. So, departing wildly from what the Church of the Subgenius might say, if the rituals of the culture around you are accpeted and made a routine part of your life, maybe they save you the work of figuring a lot of stuff out for yourself, and thus can grant you slack.
Slack Seeker
(Anonymous) 2023-09-26 03:28 pm (UTC)(link)Great post! We must be on a similar wavelength as I just finished the second draft of an article that has slack as one of its main themes. Far out!
I don't go into the Church of the Subgenius in my article really (fan though I am). What I do use as a jumping off point is the movie Slacker. I trust you are familiar with your fellow Texan Richard Linklater's first feature film? If not, it's worth the time IMO, but of course, it might just be a hassle for you.
In any case, I like what you had to say about hassle. That jibes. And your thoughts on being in a platoon also cohere with what I've heard from other people who've been in the armed forces.
Hope you have a good rest of the week! I'm going to try to get some pipe time in, myself.
Praise "Bob"!
Justin Patrick Moore
www.sothismedias.com
Re: Slack Seeker
Ashamed as I am to say, I actually have not seen Slacker, so I'll have to fix that, as I have mostly appreciated Linklater's stuff that I've seen - Dazed and Confused is a classic, Before Sunrise may be a bit cheesy, but nails what it's doing, School of Rock was good, clean fun, and Bernie is pure genius, especially if you're a Texan. A Scanner Darkly was, well, very wierd. I wonder if I ought to revisit it.
Thank you for the kind words! I included the bit about how I felt in the Army, for I feel like that's the least like what you typically get from the Church of the Subgenius, and might offer some interesting other directions to approach slack from. I definitely think there is more to say.
Enjoy your pipe time, and Praise "Bob"!
Re: Slack Seeker
(Anonymous) 2023-09-26 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)Slacker is one of my favorite films... and Linklater a favorite director.
I really loved Waking Life... probably my favorite. It's like the dream/astral version of Slacker.
Of course, as a major Dickhead, A Scanner Darkly did the late writer's novel justice.
All the best,
Justin
Re: Slack Seeker
As for Philip K. Dick, I have, well, mixed feelings. Some of his stories are absolutely brilliant, and he was always incisive, but later on in his life/career, the cynical paranoia really crept into everything. I have heard that of the movie adaptations, A Scanner Darkly is likely the most accurate. That being said, I plenty enjoyed Blade Runner, Total Recall, and Minority Report, despite (because of?) the liberties they took with the adaptations.
Re: Slack Seeker
(Anonymous) 2023-09-27 12:50 pm (UTC)(link)Of course PKD did get very paranoid -but what I like about his later novels is the mystic gnosticism and contemplation you get in VALIS (with its mysterious satellite), The Divine Invasion & The Transmigration of Timothy Archer. Ideas about reincarnation and different states of reality, really spoke to me.
While I might not agree with his views about the world as a "black iron prison" per se, as someone who was exploring reality or realities, I really felt like PKD was also in line with others around his time -Robert Anton Wilson for instance.
In any case... sorry to get off topic. Just enjoying some slack on the job, before I get back to work.
Re: Slack Seeker
And no worries - I don't yet have enough commenters to be overly worried about staying on-topic.