Date: 2024-11-05 09:12 pm (UTC)
jprussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jprussell
1) Fair enough, and for what it's worth, I'm finding myself in a similar boat. The "practical" side of magic hasn't really done much to grab me, perhaps because I went through a rabid "self-help" phase and and have a) learned most of what I need to be more effective in the world, and b) seen that "getting what you want" is, at best, a minor piece of spiritual satisfaction. Still, I also suspect that for some folks, "striving for what you want" is an important part of spiritual growth, for others "let go of material wants and focus wholly on the spiritual" is, and for still others "find a way to bring together what you want or need spiritually and materially in a subtle, nuanced fashion" might be. So, explorations like this help me work out where my own path might lay, and I hope they might shed some light for others as well.

2) You're correct on the Catholic mysteries and the days of the week. Traditionally, from Monday through Saturday, you pray "Joyful, Sorrowful, Glorious," and on Sunday, you alternate which mysteries you meditate on depending on the time of year: Joyful from Advent to Lent, Sorrowful from Lent to Easter, and Glorious from Easter to Advent. Typing this out, I notice that you spend most of the year with an extra "Glorious Mysteries," which is interesting, but not all that surprising on reflection. If you include the Luminous Mysteries, the recommended order, starting on Monday, is Joyful, Sorrowful, Glorious, Luminous, Joyful, Sorrowful, Glorious year-round.

For the Heathen Rosary, I've given a bit of thought to what to do for days of the week/times of the year, but not much so far. Linking the mystery of each day to the God for whom it is named is an interesting possibility, and one that might broaden the scope of the Heathen Rosary beyond the handful of Gods prayed to directly. One idea I'm considering to "stretch" the myths to fit the needed number of mysteries is to pull out scenes, rather than using a "whole" myth as a mystery. So, for example, if you wanted to get four mysteries out of Tyr's role in the binding of Fenris, you might have one of Him raising Fenris, one of the Gods trying different fetters that fail, one of Tyr pledging and losing His hand, and one of the aftermath (this is off the top of my head!). I don't know if each of these would be "meaty" enough for ongoing meditation through the years, but perhaps.

On the terminological issue, this is mostly coming from my attempt to shoehorn everything into Germanic-derived words for aesthetic reasons. "Mystery" is, indeed, a great word for what these things are and are doing, with all of the connotations you speak of. Unfortunately, it's Greek. "Rune" would likely be the most direct translation, and, in fact, that's how it was used in the Old Saxon Heliand - where the Bible talks about various "mysteries" that Jesus knows and teaches, the Heliand calls them "Runes." Unluckily, that would get very confusing with the prominence of the ancient Germanic system of writing, the symbols of which are each meant to be their own "mystery," and hence called "Runes." What I like about "riddle" is that it posits the idea that there's something to be puzzled through and that hides an answer. It's also a bit playful, which is nice, and riddles were culturally important to at least the Anglo-Saxons, but likely other Germanic cultures as well (Odin's wisdom contest with Vafthrudhnir could be seen as a "riddle contest" a la Bilbo and Gollum, just with a narrower range of acceptable topics). All that said, I'm not set on it just yet, because I share some of your hesitation.

3) Very nice on the translation work! I'm sure that it must be very tough - it's hard enough to do from scratch. I suspect that you might be on the right track by "working from first principles" rather than going for a direct translation, especially since these prayers can't have much of their own egregore yet, since it's basically just me praying them, and that not for all that long. As for which Goddess to pray to, as I said before, my goal is to present both a "do this as is" set of prayers and a framework for building a set of bead-assisted prayers and meditations that works for you, and Frigg seems like an obvious choice - intellectually, certainly more obvious than Idun. So, whatever you end up doing, I wish you luck and would love to hear how it goes.

And thank you for the kind words! Christian and Catholic imagery have pretty much always left me somewhat cold, even when I can appreciate the values or concepts behind them. I will say, I envy the metrical power behind these. I don't know how much of that is just the rhythm of them has sunk in through all kinds of means (I grew up hearing and saying the "Our Father," but not the "Hail Mary," but I was doubtless exposed to enough media including it that it just "sounds like a prayer"), and how much is intrinsic to how they're written, but that's one area where I felt the constraints of the meters I'm using have left me unable to get to the same level.

4) "Apple Wreath" is very nice! I don't know why, but in all my reading about "necklaces of roses" and "rose trees" and "rose gardens" as images for the Rosary (from the French for "rose garden"), I don't think I ever encountered "rose wreath," which is a lovely Germanic word with very deep roots (Tom Shippey's discussion of what Tolkien was up to naming the "wraiths" and how it's etymologically linked to "wreath" and "wrath" and "wrought" in, I think, Tolkien: Author of the Century, has branded the word into my mind). So I'll have to give that some serious consideration!

5) No worries, I think my response is even longer, so obviously that doesn't bother me :) And I know the feeling all too well! I have one friend that I don't get to see all that often who has gotten into this stuff, but not as deeply, but otherwise, all of my in-person friends are either materialists or casual protestants or "spiritual but not religious," so I'm also eager to discuss such things when I get the chance!

Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts,
Jeff
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Jeff Russell

March 2025

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