Jeff Russell

Thanks very much for the kind words!

And yeah, that makes good sense - I've seen the same sort of thing, and it's linked to the instrumentality that k_a_nitz mentioned above. I'm still hashing this out, but as I started to say there, I am coming to believe that seeing things, institutions, and people around as us instruments is a necessary part of living in the world, but one that is fraught with danger. The more someone (or a religion) is seen as a tool to get what you want, or an obstacle in the way of getting what you want, the harder it is to engage with it/him as itself/himself. As an example, almost every time I get mad at one of my daughters, it's because I have some way I want things to go and she's making it harder (like eating her breakfast slowly when I'm trying to get them to daycare, or fighting me when I try to change her diaper or something). I have to remind myself "oh wait, not only is this not mainly an obstacle to the arbitrary goal of getting to daycare on time, this is a beautiful, complex human being who is also more precious to me than anyone else, maybe I should chill the heck out."

Come to think of it, that was likely what made my experiment with "materialist religion" fall flat, where I tried doing prayers and rituals as if they were ways of interacting with "just" my unconscious. I was treating the prayers and rituals as tools to get some outcomes, and its no wonder I wasn't open to the experience of actual other consciousnesses greater than mine.

Which kind of brings us back to what got us started on all this. Can religions shape how folks act in society in ways that you or I might deem useful (or the opposite)? Of course. Will that factor into what kind of religious practices we advocate for and encourage? Also of course. But there's a temptation to focus overmuch on that, which if indulged, will kill what the religion is supposed to be doing, because it will become fake.

Or at least, that's how it seems to me at the moment.

Cheers,
Jeff