I've posted what I hope is the settled shape for the "Hail Idun" in my Heathen Rosary project. As always, comments here or emails on the post are welcome!
1) while the ones on the previous post were by no means inadequate, this one I very much want to use as-is. (As with hearthculture's Hail Frigg - https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/223141.html?thread=39622053#cmt39622053 .) I'll have to figure out what to do with more than 1 prayer, as I have no intention of dropping the polytheist version of the Gorsedd Prayer I'm using.
2) does Lady with a Mead Cup have to do with Idun?
3) I'm not suggesting any change, but do you think something could be done with the text, or the practice itself, regarding cider? (Don't know about myths/archaeology related to that.)
1) Thank you! I had the same feeling once I got this pieced together. As for what to do with more than one prayer, a few ideas: a) Different prayers on different days b) Different prayers at different times of day (wake up, bed time, dawn, dusk, midday, and so forth) c) Different prayers for different occasions (bless a meal, put on a holy symbol, begin meditation, end meditation, and so forth)
2) Sooooo, short answer: I think so. The longer answer is that we don't have *direct* evidence of a link. My working hypothesis is that there was some ur-myth about a sacred substance (probably originally a drink) held/protected/given by a Goddess or other divine feminine form. She was very likely somehow related with death, somehow related with fate/time/the universe, and because of both of these, related with the roots of the world tree/underground. I think we see reflexes of this ur-myth in lots of different forms: Gunnlodh, the Valkyries, Idun, Persephone, the "Lady with a Mead Cup", *maybe* Freyja, and so forth. Why the differentiation? That's something I haven't worked out yet that gets into the merits/perils of reconstruction and favoring the oldest version of a myth/belief/practice. What I can say is that I'm reasonably confident that there is some kind of weighty spiritual significance to the symbols of something you drink (or eat), given by a feminine figure that has to be saved/appeased/bested(?) that has something to do with overcoming/transcending regular mortality. My best guess is that this is a really powerful mythic/symbolic complex, so much so that lots of folks in lots of times have bumped into it and put various personal spins on it, some of which caught on more than others, and some of which got written down. Trying to figure out my own personal take on all of this is a big part of what I'm doing by working out these prayers.
3) Fair point! So, a) "ale" as I'm using it here is meant to be a reference to the proto-Germanic root word "alu", which seems to have meant "sacred alcoholic drink" more than it meant "the product of fermenting a wort made of boiled barley malt and additives". Thorsson discusses this, appropriately enough, in his Alu: Advanced Operative Runology, but you can also run into it in other places. Anyhow, I was using "ale" as a stand in for any alcoholic drink with spiritual significance, especially one given as a gift to the Gods and/or used in a ritual context. b) Given a), I should point out that I have a weekly practice of giving a cider to Idun, and that has seemed to go over well. That being said, I seem to be moving toward *less* differentiation in what drinks I give to what Gods, which may be more consistent with historical practice anyway. I currently have separate cups/cans/bottles for different Gods/Goddesses, but when I get/carve/consecrate a drinking horn and an offering bowl, I might move to using one beverage per prayer session/ritual, but having a serving (one horn) per God/Goddess worshipped by name, with each poured into the bowl. If/when I go that way, I'll likely use either beer or whiskey as the sacred drink, but that may change if/when I start making my own (I'd like to start brewing beer, but mead is apparently pretty easy to make and is very traditional).
I guess I'll stay some time with the Gorsedd Prayer in either the morning or evening exercise sequence, and a varying-along-the-week another in the other (*after* getting the Apprentice Essene attunement - because for now just keeping up all the MOE work has been enough!) . And thanks for all.
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2) does Lady with a Mead Cup have to do with Idun?
3) I'm not suggesting any change, but do you think something could be done with the text, or the practice itself, regarding cider? (Don't know about myths/archaeology related to that.)
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a) Different prayers on different days
b) Different prayers at different times of day (wake up, bed time, dawn, dusk, midday, and so forth)
c) Different prayers for different occasions (bless a meal, put on a holy symbol, begin meditation, end meditation, and so forth)
2) Sooooo, short answer: I think so. The longer answer is that we don't have *direct* evidence of a link. My working hypothesis is that there was some ur-myth about a sacred substance (probably originally a drink) held/protected/given by a Goddess or other divine feminine form. She was very likely somehow related with death, somehow related with fate/time/the universe, and because of both of these, related with the roots of the world tree/underground. I think we see reflexes of this ur-myth in lots of different forms: Gunnlodh, the Valkyries, Idun, Persephone, the "Lady with a Mead Cup", *maybe* Freyja, and so forth. Why the differentiation? That's something I haven't worked out yet that gets into the merits/perils of reconstruction and favoring the oldest version of a myth/belief/practice. What I can say is that I'm reasonably confident that there is some kind of weighty spiritual significance to the symbols of something you drink (or eat), given by a feminine figure that has to be saved/appeased/bested(?) that has something to do with overcoming/transcending regular mortality. My best guess is that this is a really powerful mythic/symbolic complex, so much so that lots of folks in lots of times have bumped into it and put various personal spins on it, some of which caught on more than others, and some of which got written down. Trying to figure out my own personal take on all of this is a big part of what I'm doing by working out these prayers.
3) Fair point! So, a) "ale" as I'm using it here is meant to be a reference to the proto-Germanic root word "alu", which seems to have meant "sacred alcoholic drink" more than it meant "the product of fermenting a wort made of boiled barley malt and additives". Thorsson discusses this, appropriately enough, in his Alu: Advanced Operative Runology, but you can also run into it in other places. Anyhow, I was using "ale" as a stand in for any alcoholic drink with spiritual significance, especially one given as a gift to the Gods and/or used in a ritual context. b) Given a), I should point out that I have a weekly practice of giving a cider to Idun, and that has seemed to go over well. That being said, I seem to be moving toward *less* differentiation in what drinks I give to what Gods, which may be more consistent with historical practice anyway. I currently have separate cups/cans/bottles for different Gods/Goddesses, but when I get/carve/consecrate a drinking horn and an offering bowl, I might move to using one beverage per prayer session/ritual, but having a serving (one horn) per God/Goddess worshipped by name, with each poured into the bowl. If/when I go that way, I'll likely use either beer or whiskey as the sacred drink, but that may change if/when I start making my own (I'd like to start brewing beer, but mead is apparently pretty easy to make and is very traditional).
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