2. That all basically jives with my impressions and the conclusions I've tentatively drawn from them. I suspect/hope that this is one of those cases where yes, there are potential benefits to the practice (if done all the way right), but maybe most/all of those benefits can be found in less risky ways (for "crop fertility" for example, some combination of: organic farming, permaculture, temple construction, "normal" prayer and offerings to Gods, and so forth).
3. That's the hope anyway!
4. Yeah, this is for sure a puzzler, and my tentative answers are not yet very satisfying. At its simplest level, I have "well, my tradition says to honor the ancestors, and the occult philosophy I study says we reincarnate, but other places in the world have faced this conundrum (Chinese Buddhists, perhaps), so that's weird, I guess, but oh well." Beyond that, there's what you talk about, that at a minimum ancestor veneration is a great way of cultivating awareness of where you come from and gratitude for everything you depend on that you didn't make yourself. More specifically, my current (unsatisfactory) way of squaring this circle is something like the following:
a) between incarnations, some amount of a soul's attention can/may be directed toward helping material descendants of the last incarnation. This would square with the advice in some traditions to give specific veneration for ~30 years after a life, but no longer. It would also likely depend on specific ancestor's level of spiritual development - if grandma is working through a lot on the astral plane, she doesn't have much attention for the grandkids on this plane, but if she got all that out of the way and is waiting for the next go-round, maybe she can send some positive vibes our way.
b) On a longer time horizon, some souls will wrap up material incarnation, and now that they have incorporated all of their lessons and can see/remember their past lives clearly, they might take some interest in helping out those of us still on the wheel. This might account for what happens to deified dead humans and culture heroes, at least partially.
c) As shared endeavors into which folks put time and energy, families would likely generate their own egregores, and worship/veneration would be a way to strengthen and improve these. I suspect this may be one of the major drivers for "the ancestors" as a collective focus of veneration, and that it would be strongest in societies where families have a strong identity (like clans), and weakest in more atomized, nuclear-family-focused cultures. For this piece of it, passing in and out of incarnation just means contributing (for good or ill) to that egregore for as long as you're linked to it, whether by incarnating within the family, or immediately after death, but the egregore itself could keep on existing - like an institution that persists even after the death of its founders.
d) The more personal, "figurative" sense that you talk about where specific folks "live on" in the memories of those of us left behind and influence us on a more personal level. Whether my mom is exerting any direct spiritual influence from the astral between incarnations, has finished incarnation and is functioning as a spirit who still thinks well of me, or has contributed the egregore I am still a part of by virtue of living in the Russell family, the way I am as a person has been shaped by her direct actions toward me as a person, and honoring that helps me to focus on where those influences have taken me.
5. Never apologize for recommending books! I may not get to all the books I want to read in this lifetime, but I like knowing what options to consider. That sounds like it might be interesting, and opens up a new avenue for exploration I hadn't considered: looking into writings by the parts of the occult scene I am not interested in to get counter-examples. I'll have to give that some thought.
no subject
2. That all basically jives with my impressions and the conclusions I've tentatively drawn from them. I suspect/hope that this is one of those cases where yes, there are potential benefits to the practice (if done all the way right), but maybe most/all of those benefits can be found in less risky ways (for "crop fertility" for example, some combination of: organic farming, permaculture, temple construction, "normal" prayer and offerings to Gods, and so forth).
3. That's the hope anyway!
4. Yeah, this is for sure a puzzler, and my tentative answers are not yet very satisfying. At its simplest level, I have "well, my tradition says to honor the ancestors, and the occult philosophy I study says we reincarnate, but other places in the world have faced this conundrum (Chinese Buddhists, perhaps), so that's weird, I guess, but oh well." Beyond that, there's what you talk about, that at a minimum ancestor veneration is a great way of cultivating awareness of where you come from and gratitude for everything you depend on that you didn't make yourself. More specifically, my current (unsatisfactory) way of squaring this circle is something like the following:
a) between incarnations, some amount of a soul's attention can/may be directed toward helping material descendants of the last incarnation. This would square with the advice in some traditions to give specific veneration for ~30 years after a life, but no longer. It would also likely depend on specific ancestor's level of spiritual development - if grandma is working through a lot on the astral plane, she doesn't have much attention for the grandkids on this plane, but if she got all that out of the way and is waiting for the next go-round, maybe she can send some positive vibes our way.
b) On a longer time horizon, some souls will wrap up material incarnation, and now that they have incorporated all of their lessons and can see/remember their past lives clearly, they might take some interest in helping out those of us still on the wheel. This might account for what happens to deified dead humans and culture heroes, at least partially.
c) As shared endeavors into which folks put time and energy, families would likely generate their own egregores, and worship/veneration would be a way to strengthen and improve these. I suspect this may be one of the major drivers for "the ancestors" as a collective focus of veneration, and that it would be strongest in societies where families have a strong identity (like clans), and weakest in more atomized, nuclear-family-focused cultures. For this piece of it, passing in and out of incarnation just means contributing (for good or ill) to that egregore for as long as you're linked to it, whether by incarnating within the family, or immediately after death, but the egregore itself could keep on existing - like an institution that persists even after the death of its founders.
d) The more personal, "figurative" sense that you talk about where specific folks "live on" in the memories of those of us left behind and influence us on a more personal level. Whether my mom is exerting any direct spiritual influence from the astral between incarnations, has finished incarnation and is functioning as a spirit who still thinks well of me, or has contributed the egregore I am still a part of by virtue of living in the Russell family, the way I am as a person has been shaped by her direct actions toward me as a person, and honoring that helps me to focus on where those influences have taken me.
5. Never apologize for recommending books! I may not get to all the books I want to read in this lifetime, but I like knowing what options to consider. That sounds like it might be interesting, and opens up a new avenue for exploration I hadn't considered: looking into writings by the parts of the occult scene I am not interested in to get counter-examples. I'll have to give that some thought.
Thanks again for your thoughts,
Jeff